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June 28, 2022

Tan Lines

Tan Lines

Are our lives really built on the choices we make? And if they are, how can we be sure we’re making the right ones? 

Episode 5 of “Ted Lasso” lets us dig into some meaty themes – such as the connection between agency and choice, toxic masculinity, being vulnerable in relationships and the importance of change.

Jeff also tells a story about the time he was mansplained in Portugal, and Dimple overanalyzes the titles of “Ted Lasso” episodes.

We also discuss the strength of the show’s female friendships, the power of reframing our challenges and focusing on gratitude. 

“Even that concept of believe - we have a choice. We have a choice to believe in ourselves, to believe that we can do something. We have a choice to find the courage to take those difficult decisions. At the end of the day we can just sit back and hope for the best. But I think a lot of what I felt coming out of this was how much choice we have in a given moment.”  - Dimple 

In this episode

  • 01:31 - Last week’s lessons
  • 03:34 - The concept of manifestation
  • 05:54 - Taking accountability for ourselves
  • 09:03 - Dimple’s interpretation of “Tan Lines”
  • 13:30 - Relationships as one of the episode’s themes
  • 14:21 - Ted’s first big monologue
  • 21:56 - Ted and the “believe” sign
  • 26:46 - Jeff on being in a relationship where you’re walking on eggshells
  • 28:24 - How the show’s soundtrack makes the episode more powerful
  • 35:51 - The groomzilla and the bridezilla
  • 40:42 - Toxic leaders and toxic people in the workplace
  • 46:06 - Women supporting women
  • 54:12 - Reframing with gratitude

Resources & Links



Dimple    00:00:00    

Just a quick heads up that these are adults having adult conversations about things that take place on a show where the adults use a lot of adult language, all this to say there might be some salty language ahead. So please plan accordingly.  

Dimple    00:00:18    

What would Ted Lasso do? This is the question that we explore in each episode of this podcast, we take the lessons we learn from Ted Lasso and we apply them to the real world through the lens of leadership and positive psychology. My name is Dimple Dhabalia.

Jeff    00:00:32    

And my name is Jeff Harry, and neither of us have ever recorded a podcast. But as Ted Lasso says, taking on a challenge is a lot like riding a horse. If you're comfortable while you're doing it, you're probably doing it wrong.  

Dimple    00:00:46    

We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we enjoyed making it. And that it helps you find new ways to believe.  

Jeff    00:01:02    

And this was a tough episode. <laugh> I’ve forgotten how emotional I got watching this episode being that I haven't seen it in forever.  

Dimple    00:01:13    

I know it, it is definitely a doozy of an episode with like so many layers, which I can't get, wait to get into. But before we do, do you wanna talk about, uh, what our things were from last week our, uh, do you remember? <laugh>  

Jeff    00:01:31    

Passion, accountability, compassion. It was interesting. So I remember it being compassionate accountability. I was more compassionate with myself, especially I'm writing this article right now that, you know, I'm going through ebb and flow of like it being good, and then being like, I hate this article. I never wanna look at it again, you know, and just, just having, uh, compassion for myself. But the other thing that came up when I thought of like compassion and, uh, accountability was gratitude. What came up for me was this idea of gratitude being in the mundane as I spent more time just trying to be like compassionate yet accountable to myself. I also was just thinking about like, okay, you know, I'm about to go spend time with my family, flying back to Chicago. At the end of it, you think you celebrate all of the, uh, magical, um, movie, like moments, but most of the time you spend with family or friends or loved ones is like it's mundane and, or we can actually appreciate the mundane. Like, I don't know the more powerful that is. So that came up for me as I was - during this week. I don't know why, it just did. 

Dimple    00:02:47    

Yeah. I love that. You know, and it's true. Like the, the gratitude for like the little everyday moments in life. And it's interesting because they actually did a study on this where they interviewed a bunch of people who had experienced like really horrific things. You know, they'd either gone through genocide, like they'd experienced a genocide or other forms of major trauma and what they all came back to was, um, this desire to really, or their focus was really on the little everyday regular moments in life. Like, that's what they were really seeking, you know? And so, yeah, I, I love that. I think that there is so much power in, in recognizing we don't need these major things in our day to day. It's just those little things that we can start to feel gratitude around. So yeah, I can, I can totally see how that come up.  

Jeff    00:03:34    

And one other thing that came up, I just saw this TikTok today because that's how I get some of my news. Um, and, and this person was talking about, you know, manifestation, right. And she was speaking about Abraham Hicks and Allen Watts and, and her take on manifestation, which was really interesting was she was just like the problem with the concept of manifestation is that a lot of times we desire something, so we seek it out so badly that, that lack actually prevents us from manifesting. And her argument is, is like, there's a, there's such a huge, um, cavern between what you want and where you're at. And she was just like the idea of meeting in the middle and really appreciating what is actually happening right now. Right. And being like, well, if I'm, you know, if I wanna be happy, when I'm rich, then I gotta be happy when I'm poor. If I wanna be happy, you know, being with somebody, then I wanna be able to be happy when I'm single. Right. And it's just like, that's an easier bridge of like celebrating again, the mundane of being like, I'm happy, you know, even though I'm alone and we're talking about relationships, right. I'm, I'm alone. I'm, you know, I'm happy with myself. Right. And it was great to be more, but also like, like, I appreciate me for me because, and I, I think a lot of times we don't like doing that because it's not a grandiose gesture, but those small, like basic thoughts of, you know, catching our negative thoughts and really just being like, oh, okay. I'm not as bad as I think I am most of the time

Dimple   00:05:27    

Yeah. Yeah. 

Jeff    00:05:28    

You know, really, really helps. And maybe that's part of tying it back to the compassion accountability, is the idea of, of anything being compassionate accountability is catching, being accountable to my thoughts, and calling out those thoughts that are not serving me as much, because a lot of times I just let them spiral outta control.  

Dimple    00:05:54    

Yeah. No, I agree. And I think a lot of this does come back down to that self-awareness, right. Like having the awareness to recognize what those thoughts are and when they're popping up and, and whether they're serving you or not, for me, what came up was, um, so I had a bit of a, an argument with my sister, um, as sisters do. And so not that big of a deal, but because I was kind of in this mind frame of what would Ted Lasso do. I was looking at it from a different perspective and noticing that, you know, like my instinct is to kind of dig in and, you know, last week, we were talking about kind of the storytelling, like the stories we tell ourselves about a situation and like, you know, how we feel we've been wrong. Right. Um, but what came up for me was, was the recognition that, you know, I think for there to be true accountability, it has to be accountability for ourselves, not for the other person.  Right. So it was making me think about like last week when we saw Roy and Jamie at the bar, you know, Roy took responsibility for his actions or how he shows up. Uh, but he immediately wanted Jamie to do the same. Right. And I think most of us, we want that, we take, if we take responsibility, we want the other person to like, own their part too, but we can't control whether they do or not. And so if we go into it with the expectation that, okay, I'm gonna own up, so they should own up too. Uh, I think sometimes we make things worse because then we get frustrated or upset or annoyed because we don't feel like it's been reciprocated. Right. But if we're doing it for ourselves, if we're genuinely being accountable to say, hey, I know what I did was not right, and I'm, I'm owning that. And then we leave it at that with no expectations. I think that that's like a really important piece of it for it to really be accountability. And the other thing it got me thinking about was just like the concept of gaslighting. Right. Because I think accountability helps with that, like helps to take away gaslighting because sometimes I think that like our flight response, uh, if you're a fight or flight, like everybody has fight or flight, some people air, I mean, like, uh, end up bending more towards the flight side, some people more to the flight. And I think a flight response is really sometimes where people, if they're in a situation, uh, you know, they're not honest and they're like, no, I'm fine. Like it's, you know, whatever, it's no big deal. Uh, and, and sometimes you can tell that the person's not fine, but like, what are you gonna do? Like, they're, they're telling you, right. You can't be like, I know, I know you're not. And they're just gonna keep saying, no, I'm fine. It's you, you're the one having an issue. Or we tell like a story that makes us feel kind of like a martyr in the situation and then we gaslight the other person. Right. And so I think, uh, that's the other thing that I really was thinking about with accountability is like, it's just a really great way to, to kind of get away from, from that piece of it.  

Jeff   00:08:47    

So I feel like we also see accountability sometimes as mean, and sometimes the idea of accountability is just like checking that you're, that you're living up to your values.  

Dimple    00:08:59    

Yeah. That's a good point.  

Jeff    00:09:01    

So let's get into it  

Dimple    00:09:03    

So many layers. Yeah. All right. So let's get into it. So I can't believe we're halfway through this season. So Episode 5, “Tan Lines”, I believe it was written by Brett Goldstein, so, Roy Kent. Just a lot of, a lot of turning points in this episode. So this was something interesting. I found out yesterday as I was kind of doing a little research is that this, this episode was originally titled “New Underwear” and somewhere along the way, they changed it to “Tan Lines”. And so there's, um, one of the articles I was reading was saying that like, apparently Jason Sudeikis when he does these monologues, like he's changing them right up until the last second. So that whole thing about his teacher, like there, there's a thought that maybe like part of that had to do with the “New Underwear” piece. Um, and that maybe they just changed it because it didn't really sound like him.  Um, but it got me thinking about the titles too, you know, last week it was “For The Children”, that was really used as kind of the excuse for poor behavior by Rebecca and by Rupert, like everything was like, what was happening wasn't right. But oh, it was for the children. And then this week with “Tan Lines”, just really thinking about like, I know like I'm overanalyzing things, but like, it's just fascinating to me how they make some of these choices. And, uh, as I was like watching the episode again, uh, what was coming up was like with tan lines, it's really like, there's a part that's covered up and that stays the same. Right. And you have to be open. And the parts that are open are the parts that are changing. Right. So the parts that are getting darker, if you're like laying out the sun or whatever. And so this idea of being open to change, which I think that a lot of this episode is about. So, uh, I dunno, I could be making that up.

Jeff    00:10:50    

That is so deep. I was not there. I, I have not gone that far down the rabbit hole. Um, no, I mean, the, the feeling I got from the beginning was like, you know, it's it the whole episode's about family. Right. You know, it starts off with Higgin's family, you know, and also the quiet, you know, like his, his wife being like, I hope she dies of a heart attack, but like, you know, they have their unsaid things that they're, um, trying to, then Lasso walks in and is like trying to connect with Rebecca and build family. And she's like, no, but now they have like a certain rapport, almost like a brother and sister where she's like, oh, I hate this kid. Almost like, he's the younger brother, but he's not leaving. And she can’t get rid of him. And then Rebecca also reaching out to Keely and offering her a job and being like her building a more of a support network in a family. That's the part that I was like fascinated with. And then even the, even as like the team is becoming more of a family and how like, Lasso’s definitely speaking up more, especially when he's like, dude, you gotta pass the ball. And then it was just so awesome when he, uh, he just cancels practice when he runs. And then it is that analogy of just like, oh, I don't think he realized how far of a run that is. And then, and then the other coach, what's the other coach's name?  

Dimple    00:12:20    

Beard. Coach Beard.  

Jeff    00:12:21    

Beard. Beard is like metaphor. And then he even says to his wife, he's just like, oh, I thought y'all would meet me halfway. So yeah. They also came 4,428 miles. So, you know, so  

Dimple    00:12:38    

38, 38 or 38. You're right. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Actually you're right. I didn't think about that. Cause, um, when I saw that, heard that metaphor piece, I, I was like, well, that's interesting. Like he has to go the whole way. And when you think about like the arc of the episode, like ultimately he's the one who's coming in my mind. It was like he was making that decision and coming forward and that she, to meet her where she was at mm-hmm. Um, but that she wasn't doing the same necessarily, but you're right. She did come to England. So I hadn't really thought about that piece of it, but, but it did feel a lot like he was having to, to much closer to, to where she was at rather than both of them coming in. Yeah. This idea of family, I love the Higgins too. And it turns out that the woman who plays his wife on the show is actually his real life wife, which is also kinda cool.  

Jeff   00:13:29    

Oh really? Oh, wow.  

Dimple    00:13:30    

Yeah. Like they just have such a solid relationship. And so I think that was one of the themes, right? Like really looking at relationships. There were so many in this little episode, so there's like, you know, the Higgins for sure. Or Higgins and his wife, there's Ted and his wife, Ted and Beard. Like I think that there's a beautiful story there. I loved Higgins calling it the inner sanctum of Ted Lasso.  

Jeff    00:13:53   

Yep. There's that family  

Dimple    00:13:55    

I think there's like that relationship  

Jeff   00:13:56    

Being allowed to be in it. Yep.  

Dimple    00:13:58    

Yeah. Uh, Ted and the team. So those dynamics Jamie and the team, and then definitely like you said, Rebecca and Keely. And so I wanted to, I wanted to like, oh, go ahead. 

Jeff   00:14:08    

And even, and even Nate, Nate sitting down. Yeah. Nate getting to sit down with the team, like they made a spot for it. It's so subtle. Yeah. But these things are like major.  

Dimple    00:14:21    

Yeah. Let's talk about that monologue. This is the first big monologue that we get from Ted Lasso, I think in the season so far, like, we'll get another few, uh, in the, the weeks ahead, but I think this is the first big one that we see. It's always so super powerful anyway. Like I, I love when he has these. So what I found was interesting was like, when you, when they go into the locker room, after the halftime, it's super quiet. Like normally, like they're all like talking and stuff like that. But I feel like it's the first time that you see, like Ted is a little bit nervous too. He doesn't seem like he's, uh, because he doesn't call everybody together. It's Roy that actually calls everybody together to talk and, or to listen to him, you know? And I agree. I love that little piece of Isaac just scooching over and, and telling Nate to sit down, you know, and you see that growth happening around like where they started, where he was the bully to now where he is like, yeah, come sit next to me, you know, but it was just, it was so beautiful and this idea of being broken and, and needing to come together, cuz even in the, the practice the day before he says, you know, we have, have to play as a team or we're gonna get our butts kicked.  

Dimple    00:15:33    

So thinking about like that idea of being broken and going back to like the vulnerability we were talking about last week, like I think there's so much of that that's coming out and even like this play on like masculinity and femininity, like in this show, especially, you know, there's, you're, you're in like a, a major sports team, right. So it's like the height of masculinity. And yet when they're, they're being vulnerable, when they're like opening up, there's this sense that there's this like feminine energy coming in, you know, and there's such a, a flip, right. Because then you've got Keely and Rebecca who are two super powerful women that have a lot of like those masculine kind of tendencies. Uh, which I think is really interesting too. But yeah, I, yeah. I'm curious, like your thoughts on what came up for you in that, um, that monologue.  

Jeff    00:16:22    

So I'm assuming they're like four or five weeks into the season. Right. And they haven't, they haven't won a game. Yeah. So, and now they have opportunity to win a game only because of Jamie Tartt. Right. Because he scored those two goals, but that is the first time Ted makes like a major coaching decision. That is also public. And I talk about this, I ran a workshop called Office Politics BS with, uh, my friend Lauren Yee and we used the analogy of, of managers having to like ask for permission. Like he literally runs up and asks for, for permission when he could just run it himself. But he felt this need to, because he was like, I'm changing the entire team. Like this decision is not just for now, this decision is going to change everything. And you probably could fire me just for this one decision. Yeah. When he does that, like he is now putting his stamp on the team, you know, a lot of sports announcers talk about this, how like a coach, when they make their first major public decision, like that's their stamp on the team. And what's interesting is there's so many examples of teams where as soon as the star player left, they became amazing. Like Alex Rodriguez left, Seattle Mariners made like the playoffs, like, was it Herschel Walker left Dallas? And all of a sudden they won a Super Bowl. So like, it's fascinating all these different times when coaches made a choice that almost got them fired by putting the team over the individual. And it's interesting because Tart's not even in, in the locker room, like, I guess he just did that, which is also like, I was like, whoa, I totally forgot about that. You know? And then the fact that they play the Ted Lasso way and they make the extra pass at the end. That's what makes it so sweet is that moment. So I've watched so many sports films where they have the talk and it's really like this majestic powerful talk, Miracle on Ice, Any Given Sunday. This one’s not inspiring at all to me. My, this one is more like, it's just, he's just randomly talking about his life. But for some reason it's still is, is powerful. Even though it's not like inspiring because he saves the day, you know, by being like, and I'm talking about lady football, but you know. But the feelings behind it is he's like, we're changing. Like I know I just made a decision to change and you have a choice. You can follow me in this decision. You could leave like Tart, because like, we might go downhill because we just gave up our best player. So really what I'm asking, or I feel he's asking is like, are you ready to do my way, you know, ready to do the Lasso way, which I, myself am scared to do. And that is really powerful because they're all like, oh, and then the, the part that I found is the only part that I found, like really inspirational, where it actually made sense is when he smacks the sign.  

Dimple    00:19:46    

Yeah. Yeah.  

Jeff    00:19:47    

He smacks the sign, then you're like, that's the whole point, anyway. It’s just like, when I first came, this was gonna be my way. You didn't believe in me now we're all in it together. Smacks a sign.  

Dimple   00:19:59    

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I agree. Like the monologue itself is just like he's reminiscing and kind of like, and he is talking about change. Like he's relating it back to change, but, uh, but there is something really powerful in the, because I think he's calling out like what nobody's talking about. Right. Cause that change is scary and, but it has to happen. And in order for there to be growth and forward movement. And the other piece of this though, that really stuck out for me. Um, you know, if you take it back into kind of like a, uh, a leadership context or like in a, you know, even like in an office setting is like, I've, I've seen so many workplaces where there's that one person that just makes everything toxic. Right. And like you said, with a lot of these teams, as soon as the one person leaves, like the team comes together. Right. But it's that choice of, of, of it's it's making that decision, that tough decision to, again, hold that person accountable. So in this case, like Ted had told him at practice look or at training, like you have to make the extra pass and you know, and then he chose not to. And when he made the second goal, you know, you see Ted just looking at the field and like the team looks dejected. Right. They look completely like, they're all just like staring at him and they just look so down and it's in that moment that he makes that decision, like, all right. You know, we gotta change things. And that's where like, you know, in, in the monologue he talks a lot about courage. Like change does take a lot of courage and so in that, like, he's one of those leaders that has the courage to say, all right, look, I'm gonna make a choice that nobody's gonna agree with. And, and nobody does, right? Like in the pub, they're all yelling at him in the, in the stadium, they're all yelling at him. Um, but I love that when he comes back down and makes the change, Beard looks at him and he goes, okay, you know,  

Jeff    00:21:52    

Like we're, we're in it. Yeah. Like this is the ride now, now we're in it

Dimple    00:21:56    

Yeah. So the believe sign for me was really powerful too, you know, because there's no words, he, he says, I just, you know, I have one last thing to say, I want all eyes on me and then he slaps the sign. But I think there's a, a message there too about it's believing in him for sure. But also like believing in themselves, right. That they, they don't need Jamie. Like they can do this, they have it within themselves to do it. And, and to your point, like at the end of that, when Roy does choose to make the extra pass, it's like, he's putting, you know, he wants that collective win as much as, as Ted does. You know, he doesn't need to be like the star player or anything like that. Like for him, it's about team before individual, you know, whereas with Jamie, it was always like the fact that he is on the field, like yelling me, me, like what the heck? So, yeah, so, so powerful though. But I think you're right. Like, I felt like a big overarching theme for this whole episode was around agency and choice though, right? Like the choices that we make. And, and so even that concept of believe, like we have a choice, we have a choice to believe in ourselves to believe that we can do something. We have a choice to find the courage, to take those difficult decisions at the end of the day. Like we can, we can just sit back and, and hope for the best. But I think a lot of what I felt coming out of this was how much choice we have in a given moment.  

Jeff   00:23:30    

Yeah. The other thing that comes up that I just realized was the way in which he had to let go, his wife, and the way in which he had to let go of Jamie, because he was trying to save Jamie, even at the very, you think about it. Right all the way up until Jamie's taking the photo right before he goes on the field, like Ted was about to go in on him before his kid shows up. And then he realizes how toxic Jamie is, because Jamie's like, I'm gonna do whatever I want to do. And you can say your stuff and you can say your mumbo jumbo, but I, the whole time, I'm not even listening to you. I'm just hearing people singing Jamie tatatata, you know, and then I think the last straw for Ted, I mean, there was other last straws, like on the field, but the last straw for Ted in the locker room was when he goes up to coach Beard. And he's like, good boy. Like he literally insults Beard. And it's just like, oh, like, this is done. Like, this is not. Yeah.  

Dimple    00:24:33    

It's very, I don't know. I found it kind of relatable. Like when they first go to the pub for lunch and there's just like a lot of awkwardness between them, you know? Like, you can feel it. Right.  

Jeff    00:24:44    

He's so excited to show them around. And he is so happy and you can feel more of that connection with his son, but like him and her, like the, the conversation is so weird. The donut, the donut newspaper and stuff like that. You're like what? Yeah.  

Dimple    00:25:03    

Yeah. And you can tell like he, and he, like, he's usually like, so like, you know, bubbly and talking and stuff, and he's like, stammering at the beginning of that and stuff. And you can just feel like the distance that there is between them, you know? Yeah. And, and sometimes, like, I know, like I've been in long distance relationships that when you first come back together, um, it is a little bit awkward. And like, until you find your footing, and so, you know, the next scene when they're like building the bus together, like that starts to feel a lot more like, you know, that they're comfortable, again, they're joking around. You can see, like she throws something at him. And, and by the end of the night, when they're in the bed and he's just laying there smiling, like he's just so content. And so you see like that whole arc cap and which I thought was really interesting, but  

Jeff    00:25:49    

Oh, uh, that was interesting me. I didn't have that experience when they're building the Lego. The experience I had is like, they are in tune, attuned. Right. They're attuned with each other when it's about themselves.  

Dimple    00:26:04    

Oh yeah. 

Jeff    00:26:06    

And when it's just them, like, it's almost like they're walking on eggshells, especially him.  

Dimple    00:26:13    

Yeah. That's a great point. That's a really great point  

Jeff    00:26:17    

Because, because anytime they're, it's just them like her crying when she's looking out the window and then all of a sudden, as soon as the son comes in with the jersey on, like, they're both, they're, they're in tune together, you know?  

Dimple    00:26:32    

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I hadn't even thought about that, but yeah, I could totally see that now that you're talking about it. What about that? Uh, their whole, like, having, like going separate ways, what came up for you and not?  

Jeff    00:26:46    

Um, well, I know I've been in that, uh, that relationship where you're walking on eggshells and it's rough dude. It's cause it's almost like, it's almost like a funeral, it's almost like there's mourning. Like you kind of know, but you know, you've let it linger, you know, I'm sure many people have felt this way when they're like, man, I should have broke up with that person years ago, right. Yeah. Someone's like, I got, I should have divorced that person, you know, so long ago, like, you know before you know, and I think like that trip was like the last hurrah that was the, like it's gonna, is we're either gonna rekindle it or not. And I think Ted comes to the realization literally in that locker room. When he’s doing the speech to be like, oh, it's over, it's been over. And the only thing that's preventing it from being over is me. His optimism is what's keeping it going. And what did he, what did he say to her at the end? He goes, I've never quit anything in my life. And she's like, you're not quitting. You're just letting me go. And it was like, woo wee! Wait, is that Ted Lasso’s wife? And are they actually married?  

Dimple    00:28:04    

No, no, no.

Jeff    00:28:05    

That’s Higgins and his wife.  

Dimple    00:28:06    

Higgins. Yeah. Yeah.  

Jeff    00:28:07    

Oh yeah. I could totally see that. That idea that like Ted's identity has always been built around, not quitting, always being optimistic, always. And the reframe, the reframe  is huge.  

Dimple    00:28:24    

Going back to what you were just saying about them being attuned over their kid, you know, in that last scene, if there was anything I could do to make you happy. I would do it, you know, without question. Um, but I, I can't control that piece of it. And so you don't have to keep trying anymore, like, you know, so like all of that, like he's okay. But it's it's, as soon as he looks at his son where he, where that feeling of like I'm quitting something comes up for him, you know, but going back to that idea of agency, like, you know, he's making a choice that is allowing them all to move forward. And so to me, like quitting would be staying in it just because, you know, but it's, again, that courage to go the full distance to meet her where she's at and to, to still like step forward to make sure that he's gonna be there for his kid. Like my heart just breaks every time I watch that scene for a variety of reasons. And the music, like I know I've talked about music in the past, um, as well, but the music in this episode is so powerful and it's so intentional. So when they're building the Lego bus or whatever, um, the song that's playing is by Sam Cook and it's all about a relation, like a, a relationship that's ended and he's like wanting it back and wanting that love back. And that's what that whole song is about, that's playing. And then in this one, it's, um, it's Mumford & Sons, it's, um, Forever. And what is just so amazing to me is how they've scored it so that it's like timed perfectly with each thing that's happening. So as like, she starts to move towards the car and the car pulls away, like the lyrics of that song are, you know, like do it for yourself, do it for the girl, do it for you. Dare I say forever. And it's all like it's. And that whole song also is about kind of letting go of something and like get letting go of love in a relationship, but then like being able to experience that through the memories. And so, like the song talks a lot about like, you know, looking at it through your eyes and your mind and it, and it's about the girl, like leaving, letting go of the girl in London. And I just like, oh my gosh. Like, I just think it's so amazing how they've done that. But for me, like, I really think sometimes that the music is like another character in, you know, whatever I'm watching, because I think it adds so much. And in this particular show, like they've been so intentional and I was reading somewhere that, because they're working for Apple, like they actually have a massive music budget, you know, a pretty big library to choose from, which is great. But the, the fact that they're choosing songs that have lyrics that mirror like whatever's happening is just, I think, so phenomenal. But, uh, the other thing I was gonna say is like, before he has this conversation before, even like the game, when they're, uh, talking to Higgins, when he is talking to Higgins and Higgins talks about, um, you know, his relationship with his wife and he says, you know, if you're right, if you're with the right person, even the hard times are easy. And it just, my mind automatically went to, and when you were at the wrong person, the easy times are hard. Right. Because I, I remember like being in a relationship that was just like, I felt so lonely and I was in the relationship with this person right. But everything was a struggle. And, you know, but again, like, there was just this fear, like, oh my gosh, I, I need to figure out how to make this work. I need to like change or I need to do this, or I need to do that. Um, and so I really, I appreciated that discussion so much because it's, again, it's just so like nice to see like four men sitting around talking about like, something like this,  

Jeff    00:32:18    

What came up for me was, so I was in a, you know, long term or a long, considered a, uh, relationship. And, um, I was gonna get married to this person. And then it ended, we went to therapy to see if like we could work on communication issues and we ended up not getting married instead we ended up breaking up and that ended last year, around this time. And a year later, I don't know if I'm fully over it. Right. Like, like, like sometimes I feel I'm still in the relationship, even the relationship ended a year, a year ago. So there's, I, again, there's something powerful about what you said earlier about agency and choice of like, it doesn't really matter if you make the choice when you're in the relationship or even after the relationship's over, like you, you know, the process is the same, right? There's the choice of actually like breaking up and being like, this is not gonna work out, but there's a bigger question of like, are you finally ready to let go of what could have been. There’s such a, I think a lot of our suffering as, as human beings come from, you know, expectations, right. Expectations being the thief of joy, and the idea of you had this notion of like, oh, this is how it's gonna play out. And then it didn't play out that way. Yeah. And then you have to mourn the fact that that is not gonna happen anymore. And a lot of people never let that go, they all, and then that's where a lot of like depression comes from is this idea of like what it should have been and why is it not there? And not being able to embrace what's about to happen because you were still focused on what it could have been.  

Dimple    00:34:14    

Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because when Ted starts that conversation with Michelle, he says, you know, he talks about how they were in the parking lot and they had no idea like what it would turn into, you know, and there's something, and then they like cut to like Roy and Keely which is always really exciting. Right. Um, but there is, there's something to be said for that. Right. Like, um, I know you and I like had this conversation even about this podcast, like when we were talking about whether to do it or not, and, you know, to go into it without those expectations. And it's funny, my dad used to say that all the time about everything, like, he always taught us, like, don't have expectations of anyone or anything around you, like go into it, uh, without, because to, to your point, like, it does steal your joy, right? Like you build up this whole thing in your mind about how, how you want, you know, like what you want things to, to look like or how you want them to sound or how you wanna show up. And there's just so many things that are out of our control. And so like, you know, so inevitably, uh, something's not gonna work out and, and then you end up just feeling so terrible and yeah. Uh, yeah. And so I think like that, that's like a big one, not having expectations. Like I think it's, it's such a great, uh, plan, you know, and again, it shouldn't even be a plan, but it's such a great like, concept to think about. And it's so hard to put into practice.  

Jeff    00:35:40    

It's so hard. I, I use the example of the groomzilla, bridezilla, you know, where the, um, you know, where they,  

Dimple    00:35:49    

I’ve never heard groomzilla, but I like it.  

Jeff    00:35:51    

I mean, and if you're gonna say bridezilla, you're gonna have to say groomzilla, too. Like, that's why I live with groomzilla. But both of them, like any, like imagine when you imagine having the party of your lifetime. Right. And it has to go a certain way, if you're so focused on it, going a certain way, you miss all the love, the connection, the curiosity. Yeah. All these people are showing up to celebrate you, but you are fixated so much on it happening perfectly that you miss out on all of the other opportunities of, of love that you could experience. And I use that analogy because like, it's like what a waste, because you have, you're never gonna have that many people that love you in one place, again, except for maybe your funeral, you know? Right. When you're not gonna be around. So why not enjoy that experience before you’d enjoy that experience, you have to embrace curiosity and you have to let go, right?  

Dimple    00:36:50    

Yeah. So it's interesting. So there's, so we've got like Ted and Michelle on the one hand, and then you've got the breakup between Keely and Jamie and like 24, less than 24 hours later, Jamie's already moved on and, uh, you know, and I just think there's like so much grace in the way that she like handled that whole situation. You know, like coming to find this woman, you know, barely clothed in her ex-boyfriend's kitchen. Uh, I thought it was funny that the girl is like, Keely's number one fan also. That was really funny. Uh, but just like Jamie's cluelessness, you know? And so when she says, you know, I, I always like, uh, know doubt, like my decision breaking up, but you've made it really easy and he just, he takes it at face value. He's like, welcome. I like to make people feel good. It's like, do you know? Like, his lack of self-awareness is just like mind blowing.  

Jeff    00:37:51    

Well, it's also funny, funny the language you used of like, he's already moved on, you know, from Keely. What I think of is like, he never was with her.  

Dimple    00:38:03    

Right. Actually you're right.  

Jeff    00:38:04    

It's like, because he's never been with anybody, like the whole thing with Jamie. And he says it, even when he's just like, well, I'm gonna take a shower alone. He doesn't see women. And probably the same way he doesn't see his teammates. He doesn't see them as not even equals he, he doesn't even see them as humans. He just sees them as just, you know, things that he uses before he moves on to someone else. So I don't think he's even really under ever understood even what a relationship is. Right. It's just a warm body that, and anyone that, that is able to be close to him is really lucky. Just like, you know, Ted Lasso’s kids are really lucky. Coach Beard is really, everyone is lucky to be near me, like me being me. And it's kind of actually sad cause it's such a lonely existence because then nobody likes him. Right? Yeah, yeah. You know, and it's just, and nobody likes him. He still gets praised. Right. But if anyone that actually no one, nobody likes him that actually knows him.  

Dimple    00:39:10    

Well, and he has that reputation right. When they're playing the match, when he goes to do the, the penalty kick. Yeah. The announcer is like, you know, will he look for a teammate or will he go for the glory? And then they say, well, in Jamie Tart's case, uh, it's usually a rhetorical question, you know, it's like, everyone knows, like, that's, that's what he's like. 

Jeff    00:39:33    

And, and it's, and it's almost so sad because like you even see him, you know, trying to, you know, build or relate with the beer, you know, he is just like, I'm so entertaining. And everyone's just like, you're not, like, you're just not that relevant. And you're only relevant because you're on a crappy team. Right. Like that's the other part that I think is really interesting about him. I, I forgot what happens next, but like, you know, he's not a big deal anywhere else. Right? So, um,  

Dimple    00:40:10    

But it is curious, right. It is curious that Manchester City would loan him when he is, I mean, he's a pretty good player. Right.  

Jeff    00:40:19    

Well, but great teams in English Premier League always loan out players. Especially if they don't, especially if they don't, because then you can keep them while you're, while you, and then you can pull them, whenever someone gets injured.  

Dimple    00:40:33    

And, but it is curious. Right. It's curious if, uh, part of that though, is that he wasn't a team player over there either. And so,  

Jeff    00:40:42    

Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Right. Or he, or he just wasn't as good as he thinks he is. And I think that's, I think that's the part of like, going back to like toxic people, right. Is I think toxic people, or especially toxic leaders or toxic people in the workplace, you know, many times think they, their attitude is beneficial to the organization. Like I remember talking to this one guy, I wasn't friends with him, but like we were on a trip together and I was just like, why are you so such a, an ass? And he, he was open to having this conversation, he’s just like, oh, because that's what people want. That’s the only way to get things done. That's the only way I get respect. And it was like, just looking at him just like, Jamie was just like, man, this is so sad. It's so sad that the only way you can get respect is to be horrible to people  

Dimple    00:41:37    

Or you think you're getting respect. It's probably not even respect.  

Jeff    00:41:41    

Probably not even getting respect. Right.  

Dimple    00:41:43    

Yeah. Yeah. One thing that, that I noticed, and I, I'm curious if you noticed this too, was, um, there was two instances of kind of, I don't wanna say mansplaining, but like where men felt the need to like weigh in or when, uh, Nate asked him, well, why did you leave? He says, every time I tried to fix her problems or do something sweet for her, uh, it would end up blowing up in my face or something like that. And so there's that piece of it with kind of struck me like this idea of him needing to fix her problems. You know, and then the other. And so it's not really mansplaining, but like this thing, sometimes that men have with wanting to feeling like they need to be the ones that are fixing things when women aren't necessarily asking them to do that. And then the other one was where Roy like, weighs in on Keely's relationship, you know? And I, again, I just, I love it so much. Um, and her response, you know, with like, and she calls him out on it, you know, and I'm not, we're not together anymore. We broke up, but who asked you anyway? Right? And then she says like, I'll start to ask you permission for everything that I do moving forward, you know? Uh, but I like, I like, not just for some reason, I was like, it feels so like with the way that the men are on the show and how open they are and stuff. It's just interesting. It brings you back to like the reality of like, yeah, but they're still human and they're still gonna be those tendencies. But I was curious if, if that stuck out to you at all, or  

Jeff    00:43:11    

Yeah. What I loved about that scene was Keely was giving a little Roy back to Roy, which I really loved. And even the text that she said where she was just like, my bladder's full. So now I'm, but yeah, I mean, speaking about mansplaining, I mean, I know this sounds weird, but I have also been mansplained by another man. And, and, and I only got a glimpse of it. So I don't experience what you experience at a regular basis. And I was like, I am sorry. I made a whole video about like, how, how horrible it was, because I just sat in it because I was in Portugal, was talking to this guy and he literally just, just talked to me for like 20 minutes and did not let me have like a word the whole time. I don't know he was lonely or whatever it is. So, I think a lot of times us men mansplain out of insecurity, right. It's part of the whole patriarchy white supremacy thing of like, we should know what we're talking about. And it's funny, we talk more and explain more the less we know what we're talking about. And that's the part that is so ironic, because then we're just like, well, let me explain to you how relationships work. Even Nate, at one point, I think tries the mansplain Ted, well relationships are. And he is like, well, I don't know. I don't know. But, but what I've heard, you know, and Ted’s like, whoa, slow your role there. You know, like, you know, we each, you know, a lot of men do that because we don't know what to say. And then I think the other part about the fixing, we try to fix things because we don't wanna sit in feelings, you know? Like it's much easier to fix things, you know, in many ways we've been taught when there's a problem. I mean, I just think of like the way in which, you know, a lot, a lot of us men are raised is you get hurt, you walk it off, right? Like, you mess up then, you know, or you break something, then you go and try to fix it and you can't fix feelings. And that frustrates a lot of us because, you know, I've been into these relationships that a lot of my friends have been where like a woman is telling you their problems and you're just like, well, can't you do? Like, we wanna be like, can't you just do this, that if you do this, we don't have to talk about these problems anymore. Not realizing that you're really communicating to us is I just wanna share my feelings right now. And that's it. That's all. I just wanna express my feelings and we're just like, well, we want to circumvent you having to ever complain about this ever again. And it's just like, well, that's just not gonna happen. You know, like I have this horrible thing at work and you're like, yeah, but you know, you could solve it by quitting or, or, or confronting that person. But it's just like, well, I don't wanna do that right now. I just want to.  

Dimple    00:46:06    

Yeah. And I will say, I, I don't think it necessarily is just men. Right. Like I think women do that as like, everybody does that at some, at some point along the way. Uh, but speaking of like women and relationships, like, I just wanna touch real quickly on, uh, Keely and Rebecca, like, I love this. And it's so like the relationship that's forming because, you know, you watch pretty much any TV show or a movie. And like, there's always like something undercutting, you know, like there there's always like gonna be friction between women and most everything that you watch these days. Right? Like where women are out to get each other or they're stepping on each other or whatever. And I love that this show really works to like, have these women be so tight, even though they didn't know each other at the beginning. And one of them was super intimidated by the other. And like watching their relationship grow. And, and we know like, we're like that, um, what's that term, there's a term like, like a neutral observer or something.  

I can't remember. There's like an actual term for it, but we're that thing, like looking at it from the outside. So we know that Rebecca is still like scheming and all of that, but like, and of course, like last week, because she had that little bit of a breakthrough there's this scene like sense of like, oh, you know, hopefully like she's, she's turning around now. And then today, like, or in this episode we see her again, just like things are going, smashingly like, we don't have all the seats sold, but that's great. But you do see like little bits shifting. Right. And, and I feel like that is also realistic because you wouldn't expect someone who's in it the way that she is to just do a 180 and be like, all right, now I'm like, you know, and so like, she has to build up to it. Um, but I love that she has Keely's back and she is just like, you know, let me help push this woman up because I see something in her. I see that she has this gift and, and the discussion they have around it, or Keely's like, well, don't, you know, I don't want you to gimme a job just cuz I was nice to you in the bath or the loo. And she's like, why like men do it all the time. Right. And so, and it's true. Right? Like it's all about those connections and stuff. So why shouldn't women be able to do the same thing? And I, I just really loved that, uh, that whole scene.  

Jeff    00:48:26    

There's like, there's like a sisterhood that I appreciate that you, that you actually really don't see as much in, in like modern television. And I even think of, um, I used to watch Sex and the City back in the day, you know, I was actually really into it. Um, and I was reading an article recently that, you know, the Kim Cattrall, the oldest. Actually hated it at the end because she actually didn't even wanna do the movie. She was just like, and, and Sarah Jessica Parker was just like, oh, we gotta do these because it's so popular and everyone wants it. But there was like, even in the show, there was a certain level of like cattiness and, and I didn't see that level of like sisterhood. Right. And at the end it was a lot about like, you know, uh, what is it, women's relationship to men and, you know, and the, the, the whole story was about women being able to stand up on their own at the end, they all end up with men and some of them end up with like toxic men and Kim's like, yeah, I'm done with that. Like, I don't wanna do that anymore. And then people feeling, making it, her feel guilty for not participating in this more. And it's, it's like, yeah, you don't really, I mean, for a guy watching this, I'm like, I don't really see like a lot of shows where the woman has each other's back. So like that. That's awesome.  

Dimple    00:49:52    

And I know notice when I'm watching it, like, especially the first time I watched it, I could feel in my body like this anticipation of how's she gonna screw her over. You know? Right, right. Like, oh, this is going well, what's she gonna do to screw her over. Right. Like, because that's what we're so conditioned to seeing. And so, uh, I'd love that they're shifting that paradigm. I think it's great. Um, yeah. 

Jeff    00:50:17    

Media's trying to make it seem that women always hate women. Yeah. And it's just like, it's not like that. Like,  

Dimple    00:50:24    

No, in fact, I, I feel like in my real life, like I've got this solid group of, you know, like a small group of women that I know have my back, no matter what, you know, and, uh, and I'd love to see that reflected somewhere in a way that's real and, and whatever, you know? And so I, I like that they're starting to do that. 

Jeff    00:50:46    

Being that I have two older sisters, I think that affected how, like, I probably have, I have more female friends than male friends. I do feel even though I’m a dude, I do feel a sisterhood with a lot of my female friends

Dimple    00:51:00    

I could say that about you.  

Jeff    00:51:03    

So I'm like, I, I, I I'm with it. I feel it. So, yeah.  

Dimple    00:51:07    

And then the last thing that I just, uh, there were so many little comedic moments in this, um, episode as heavy as it was, and as like sad as it was, but two things like, uh, this was not comedic, but I love the changing of the word wanker. Right.  

Jeff    00:51:25    

Reframing again, right. Reframing comes back.  

Dimple    00:51:28    

Yeah. Super powerful. And I, I love how Coach Beard, also, so you've got Keely and Rebecca pushing each other up, but then you've got Beard and, and Ted doing the same for each other. And, and Beard's the one who has, and you know, he says, Hey, coach, listen, you know, and Ted's like, oh, it's, it's the same word. And he goes, yeah. But different, you know? And I love that. Yeah. I love that. He's helping him see that. And at the end, you know, like as soon as, um, Michelle pulls away, like the, um, Beard is there with a beer, and like, like a, you know, and, and that scene is so powerful and they don't say a word to each other, you know, it's just so like, there's, there's comfort. And there's, uh, you know, in that like friendship and companionship, there's like an element of love. That's there that even though his relationship with his wife is ending, like he's got something that's like anchored and it's gonna help him stay anchored, you know? And I just thought that that was so beautiful.  

Jeff    00:52:31    

And then there's the bonus right after that, because then the elderly men is like, Hey, Wanker, you did good today. Yeah. I think reframing is such an important theme of this episode from the you're not quitting. You're letting me go, wanker wanker, and I'm sure there are other moments when there's also so like a certain level of reframing. Oh, even the reframing when Keely's talking to Jamie and she's like, oh yeah, I don't need to be here anymore. Like, it's just, yeah. That's and if we can like, apply that level of like reframing, especially maybe that's my theme. As we go into our, like, takeaways is like reframing what it is actually happening right now, when I'm around and getting triggered by my family. Like,  


Dimple    00:53:16    

Gotta love the holidays.  

Jeff    00:53:18    

Right, exactly. Right 

Dimple    00:53:19    

Uh, yeah, no reframing is super powerful. So yeah, we should talk about what we wanna cover. But one last thing I wanna say, cause this one’s so funny is, um, in the pub when they're all yelling at Ted and Paul is like, yeah, but he has a nice family and the other guy turns around and he's like, damn it, Paul don't humanize him. Right. I was just like, yep.  

Jeff    00:53:44    

And then when he puts his kid on his shoulders and Rebecca's like, oh, because again, again, like more humanizing, you know, more people loving Ted. And she's like this is the exact opposite of what I wanted.  

Dimple    00:53:59    

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so many, so many good things in this episode, like they're all so good. It's so hard to pick and choose. All right. So you're gonna, that's your thing for next time is to reframe? 

Jeff    00:54:12    

Well, I think I'm gonna explore, you know, because, you know, tying in my various ones of attunement and compassionate accountability and gratitude. Yeah. Incorporating, reframing, like this idea that instead of me running with a story, you know, I asked my nephews to come and help us decorate the tree. We usually decorate it like right before Christmas. Right. You know, and he he's like, I'm going to Wisconsin for snowboarding. And I'm like, oh, these kids like, just don't care about their elders. Don't care about like hanging out with us and just being like, no, you know, like it's the one time he gets to be with his friends back at home. And you know, that just that reframing gets me out of my negative spiral. So the more I can just be like when he is here, just appreciating the time I have with him. Instead of thinking of all the times he's not here is gonna really help me to have more gratitude. The reframing with a gratitude focus. Let's go.  

Dimple    00:55:15    

Yeah, I like that. That's a, that's a really good one. I felt like I had another one, but I can't remember what it is now, as we were talking, something came up for me. But, but I, I like the reframing. I think that that's probably one that I could use some practice with too. So I think I'm gonna try that as well and see how that goes. And, uh, another, sorry. You're  

Jeff    00:55:39    

You're like really? You're like really,  

Dimple    00:55:40    

Like, I'm like, I know there was something else you're  

Jeff    00:55:43    

Like, wait a minute. I'm trying to no, but isn't that also funny about the thoughts, right? When you so badly wanna get it back, you can’t

Dimple    00:55:49    

Yeah. You can’t.  

Jeff    00:55:51    

And as soon as you let it go, it comes flooding back to you and you're like, oh yeah,  

Dimple    00:55:55    

That's so true. So true.  



Jeff    00:56:00    

I just reframed the thoughts right there. Oh, I also might have mansplained you, so, oh  

Dimple    00:56:04    

Yeah, no, you didn't. Well, thank you. This was, uh, fun yet again. Uh, and I, I appreciate you.  

Jeff    00:56:15    

This is awesome. I'm excited to experience these last, uh, well I guess like four, wait. Yeah. Five more episodes. So  

Dimple    00:56:25    

I know. Well, and now they're getting even better. So I'm just like getting, yeah. All right. Well, have a lovely holiday and, uh,  

Jeff    00:56:34    

Thanks so much everyone for listening. We appreciate.  

Dimple    00:56:37    

Yeah, well, hopefully you're still listening  

Jeff    00:56:39    

And we will talk to you later.  

Dimple    00:56:48    

Thanks so much for listening of What Would Ted Lasso Do. If you got any nuggets of Ted Lasso wisdom from this episode, try them out in your life and let us know what happens @WWTLDpodcast on Twitter, Instagram, or at our website, where you'll also find a full transcript of the show. We love hearing what other Ted heads took away from the episode or details or perspectives that we might have missed.  

Jeff    00:57:11    

And if you do like the show, please subscribe and head on over to Apple Podcast and leave us a five star rating. It all helps. We don't know exactly why, but it does in the spirit of believing in hope, believing in believe. Please help us out  

Dimple    00:57:29    

And thank you to Podify and Sam Davidson for producing our show, to Kajal Dhabalia for our visuals and graphics, and Kenzie Slottow for our theme song. And most of all, thank you to all of you for listening.  

Jeff    00:57:39    

Ted Lasso could simply just be another show to binge watch. Or if we challenge ourselves to consistently ask the question, what would Ted Lasso do? It could change the trajectory of your life. It has for us  


Dimple    00:57:56    

So join us again next time as we explore another episode and ask ourselves, What Would Ted Lasso Do?