As we dive into the second season of Ted Lasso, the dynamics between the characters that we know and love are undeniably shifting, so what happens when these beloved individuals have to move through uncomfortable moments? What happens when they’re forced to grow and adapt?
Welcome to Season 2 of What Would Ted Lasso Do! We’re back for another season with some really exciting episodes ahead, and we’re so grateful for the community that we’ve cultivated here. Thank you for being a part of this journey!
As we dive into the second season of Ted Lasso, the dynamics between the characters that we know and love are undeniably shifting, so what happens when these beloved individuals have to move through uncomfortable moments? What happens when they’re forced to grow and adapt?
Well, sometimes they have to reach out to others.
“I love that they’re starting to weave in this idea that like, sometimes you have to ask for help, and there has to be an understanding that all of our parts of life are connected. And so we’re not going to forget one thing just because we’re given kind of permission to forget it.” – Dimple (33:08)
In this episode, we’re breaking down where we end up when optimism is temporarily absent, how to truly listen to those around us, the importance of character, integrity, and vulnerability in intimate connections, why leadership requires us to marry gentleness and assertion, and why we should never ever settle for less than we deserve.
In the words of Roy Kent, “Don’t you dare settle for ‘fine.’”
In This Episode
Resources & Links
Just a quick heads up that these are adults having adult conversations about things that take place on a show where the adults use a lot of adult language. All this to say, there might be some salty language ahead, so please plan accordingly.
Ted Lasso Clip (00:00:11):
I love that about him.
Is there a problem?
Tell the truth. He's fine. That's it. There's nothing wrong with that. Most people are fine. It's not about him. It's about why the fuck you think he deserves you. Yeah. You deserve someone that makes you feel like you've been struck by fucking lightning. Don't you dare settle for fine. Not that it’s any of my business.
What would Ted Lasso do? That's the question we explore in each episode of this podcast. We take the lessons we learn from Ted Lasso and apply them to the real world through the lens of leadership and positive psychology. My name is Dimple Dhabalia.
And I'm Jeff Harry. We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we enjoyed making it and that it helps you discover your own Lasso way and embrace what it means to believe.
All right, welcome back. I can't believe we are finally starting season two. How are you doing?
Oh, I'm excited. I finally got to watch an episode from season two, so I'm, I know, quite can't,
I'm actually very excited about this too, because it has been really hard not to talk about parts of season two <laugh>, but yeah, it's been a minute. So what have you been up to since we closed out season one?
We met in person at a conference called the World Domination Summit, and while we were there, we ran a workshop called “What Would Ted Lasso Do?” And we got, I don't know, like 40 Ted heads to all get together, which I found super fascinating.
Yeah, that was actually really fun. It was really nice to just be in person, first of all, and then to be gathered with a bunch of people who actually enjoy this as much as we do was, um, yeah, I just thought that was really special.
Also, I was just fascinated with, I just love Ted Lasso fans, man. There's just such a healthy, uh, camaraderie, and I'm always surprised by this. There's a certain love of like healthy masculinity, especially expressed by many of the men that were there. And I was like, man, you know, there're not many places where you see like healthy masculinity, especially on TV. So that just gave me a little bit more faith, society just being surrounded by a bunch of Ted Heads.
Yeah, no, that's such a good point. And it, it is really refreshing, I think, because we don't get to be in a lot of those spaces. And so yeah, that, that was actually really nice. And, um, for the listeners in this workshop, we basically just had a series of questions and had people kind of walking around talking to each other about what character they most resonated with or, uh, what living the Lasso Life meant to them. And then we kind of ended with having each person share a challenge in their own life, and then walking around and getting some Ted lasso wisdom from the other Ted heads that were there. And so it was, it was so much fun. And I don't know, for me, I think one of the, the best parts was, you know, we were kind of talking about this being like, you know, the Lasso community and whatever, and, and somebody in the group actually was like, this feels like this feels like our own Diamond Dogs. And we were like, yes, that's exactly, that's perfect. It was so much fun. And again, just being in person felt so different and, but yeah, I agree. There's just such a magic about that group of people. And so, yeah, so that was fun.
My favorite part had to be after they said that, then there was howling, there was a little Diamond Dog howl. This is grown adults howling in a park. So I was like, yes, more of this, please. More of this in the world.
Yeah. And there definitely was a spirit of play, which I thought was really fun through the whole thing. And so, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure the people of Portland, Oregon, which is where we were, probably like, what is going on over there? But yeah, it was definitely, people had fun, so that was nice. Anything else fun you've been doing since, uh, we closed out the last season?
Just causing mischief in the workplace. That's just my jam, you know, dismantling the patriarchy one company at a time. That's the nerdy stuff I'm doing. What about you?
That's fun. Uh, yeah, no, I've just been kind of taking a quiet summer and I've started working on a book, so that's been fun and challenging and, um, yeah. But I, I was looking forward to, to jumping back into our Lasso Life and moving into season two. And actually that's the other thing I do wanna say before we jump into season two, is I just really want to say thank you to all the, the people you know, all of you listeners who have been tuning in, and especially for the feedback that we've gotten. We've just been so, so happy to hear from you and to hear, um, the kind of impact that this show has been making, especially for all the leaders out there, but just for anyone who has connected in some way with the show. So just really wanna say thank you and we look forward to interacting with you more through season two. So with that, let's jump in.
Yeah, let's get into it. Yeah.
So today we are talking about episode one of season two. It's called “Goodbye Earl”. And, uh, this was written by Brendan Hunt and directed by Declan Lowney. And the summary from Apple was that AFC Richmond brings in a sports psychologist to help the team overcome their unprecedented seven game tie streak. Yeah. So let's jump in. What came up for you? This was a nice intro episode.
So there were a lot of things that I noticed right from the get-go that I was like, ‘oh, this is interesting.’ So I'll get to like Rojas and you know, him killing the dog. But what was fascinating for me was there were two moments that it was like, oh, things have shifted. And one of 'em was, uh, Rebecca's office. So usually there's nobody in Rebecca's office the whole first season. Nobody's in her office. Like she's always there alone at her desk. And as soon as season two starts, there's like three people in the room or two people in the room before Ted comes in. So it already that, that vibe has already changed. It's now like a community gathering place, and then even Higgins goes, ‘I'm gonna go, you know, because I'm gonna, uh, watch Empire Strikes back with my children,’ like, as if he's like going home instead of like working till, you know, she wants him to go home, right?
So there's already that, that I found really fascinating. And then the other part that was really interesting was during the press conference, after, you know, another tie, uh, Trent Crim stands up, mind you, Trent Crim should not be reporting on a, like B-league or D-league team right now, but he's there and he asks a question that you would think is a hard question, but it's a softball question for Ted because he sets up Ted for greatness. He sets up Ted for like, that folksy story that Ted's gonna share and, and then Trent gives him a little smile. And I'm like, woo, things have changed since last season.
That's so interesting. I really love that observation about Rebecca's office. I hadn't even thought about that. I, I felt something different, but I didn't put that together. And so yeah, totally, so much more community oriented and yeah, that little smile from Trent at the end was, it's just so subtle too. You know, it was also kind of funny when, uh, he did stand up to say Trent Crim and then everyone else chimed in with the independent <laugh> before he even had a chance to, to go there. So yeah, so these intro episodes are always interesting to me because, you know, last season we had, I felt like the intro episode was all about introducing each character to us, right? So we got to know each and every character a little bit, and now we kind of know all of them. And then some of those kind of bigger storylines, like, you know, the fact that Rebecca was undermining the team and, and Higgins was kind of helping her, and Ted was oblivious.
Like those things have gone away. And so now we're like in this new, new space. And, you know, I was thinking about, um, towards the end of last season, we talked about the word word believe, and I think I had looked it up, the definition, and it's about having, you know, uh, faith and confidence. And so I was kind of thinking about that this week, that like, season one was all about getting people into that space of having that faith and having that confidence and, and believing and believe, and now we're entering this season, we're right off the bat, it's like people's confidence is being hit. We've got Ted who has always been able to inspire other people and, and get them past those mental blocks, and suddenly he's at a loss. And then you've got Rebecca in her personal life kind of, you know, stepping back out into the dating world.
And so there's some like, like fear in in her, you know, and maybe not as much confidence there, even though she projects so much confidence in other parts of her life. And then even Roy, like Roy is kind of floundering right now, <laugh> as he's like coaching his, uh, niece's soccer team or football team. And so there was that issue, like, so to me, like that, that was like a big thing that was starting to come through. But then the other piece of it that kind of stuck out for me was what happens when optimism isn't enough? Right? And so again, like, so, you know, let's maybe just start with Danny, cuz that's where we're at at the beginning. So last season we ended with relegation, and now we're, uh, eight, I guess it's the eighth game into the new season. And you've got the most optimistic player on that team, arguably, who is just devastated after he kills this dog inadvertently, you know? And so what happens when we start to get in our head and that optimism isn't enough?
Right. I, I think the other part that I found really interesting, uh, was he went from football is life to football is death, right? That if you feel one extreme, then you have to feel the other extreme, right? And that I found was really fascinating. And then once he goes to the therapist, you know, and then some magic happens, and then he is all of a sudden fine again. It's like, well what, what'd she say? Like, I need to know exactly what she said. And he's like, well, she taught me football is life and football is death, and football is also just football. And I'm like this, that's genius. Like, that's genius writing, right? That is just genius because that really is what, you know, a therapist would do. Like, it would would provide you the context for everything. So you don't take one thing with, you know, with, uh, that you care about so much and then not take the other extreme.
Yeah. I'm curious what that sentence meant to you though. Football is life, football is death, football is football.
Well, I think what it means is that, you know, there's a lot of different ways in which you can interpret something, right? You could take for example, death, right? You could see death as really sad. Well, also death can be really beautiful. And then death also could have a lot of meaning and also could in some cases not have as much meaning. And we put meaning towards all these things, right? Yeah. Yeah. And we believe that it has to be a certain way. So in Rojas's case, he believes football is life. So everything around football is life. So when somebody dies, when this dog dies, that can't compute with his world. And what she provided him is the complexity of like, no, it can't, it all can fit, it all fits, it's all okay, you know, you can be sad and happy at the same time. It's that whole like Pixar Inside Out thing where it's just like, it's complex. Feelings are complex, human beings are complex, and it's okay that they are, it's okay that it's messy as opposed to one extreme or the other extreme.
Yeah, I kind of had the same thought, you know, this idea that like, I think when he first started out with football, his life, like, it was just like, it was super again, like optimistic and sincere and just really sweet, you know, like, football is everything. But I think like the nuance that Dr. Sharon brings in is football is life, which life is complicated and messy. And so to your point, like it, it can include all of that. And so yeah, I agree. I thought that was some really beautiful writing as well. And so let's talk about Dr. Sharon. This is your first introduction to her and, uh, she's played by the lovely Sarah Niles, who is phenomenal. She's been in so many things and is just always outstanding, but oh my gosh, she is so good in this role. What did you think of Dr. Sharon?
I kind of thought of Dr. Sharon the same way Ted thought of Dr. Sharon. Like, there was a little, there's a lot of like apprehension and I get it. Like I've gone to therapy with people that I've been with, and in the end it like ended, and I've been on the, well, I've been on both sides, but I've been on one experience where I thought as if the game was rigged. And it was just like, well, is everyone just talking horrible things about me? Is this, did y'all meet before we met? Like, I'm just trying to understand how, how this is playing out. Yeah. So there was like that little apprehension. What I found also really interesting though was I didn't realize how superstitious Ted was, but that just makes sense because like sports is superstitious and you just don't talk about certain things like the yips or, you know, or a bad streak.
I mean, heck, when a baseball pitcher is throwing a perfect game, nobody talks to that person. They actually leave that person like 10 feet away because they don't wanna mess up their flow, right? You don't wanna be the one that like jinxes it. So it was just so interesting them with their folksy like, ugh, don't talk about the yips. And then she just comes in there ands, just like, yes, we can talk about all these things. It's okay. And he is like, what's wrong with you? Like, you know, you, you're not here to play with us. Why are you not here to play? And then at the end, she, you know, she goes, what's your record? And I think she was asking about what's the record of the team, because she asked him directly, are you good at your job? Which is just like a really, like, this is like, oh goodness, she's like challenging his authority. And, and then he's like, what's your record? And they say their record of 2,936, like hits of paper. And she's like, Hmm. And then she just walks away. I was like, oh my gosh, who is this person? No wonder she like, got nominated for an award. I was like, yeesh, I got the chills just meeting her.
So I actually think she did ask in relation to the game that they were playing because
Because she asked it at the, towards the beginning and the number is actually 1,236, which,
Oh see. Oh, nice.
And, and the reason I know this is because there's a lot of like Reddit threads and stuff about this. So 1,236 is the number of times they've been bouncing that pa or that was their record for the number of times they've like bounced the paper in a previous game. But it's also the number that Phoebe gives when, when Keeley asked her about like, what's on Roy's tab for his swearing. So it's the same number 1,236. So there's all this like speculation about what the number means because as we know, like nothing on this show is a giveaway, right? And so, right, well there was three things that I read about. So number one was people talked about how it's a perfect number. So a perfect number is, I was terrible at math and so this means nothing to me, but a perfect number is a positive integer
That's equal to the sum of its positive divisors excluding the number itself. So for example, in this case, six has divisors one, two, and three excluding itself, and then one plus two plus three equals six. So that's a perfect number. But the other thing that I thought was really cool is it's an angel number and an angel number 1236 is the angel of increased optimism. So this was a theory put forward by someone named Christopher Hoffman in, uh, I think it was the Ted Lasso talk group. But then there was another kind of description that says it's the start of your journey. So angel number 1, 2, 3, 6 is a message from your angels that the pain and the struggles you face in life will soon make your life worthy more. So you have enough time to make your life better and never waste even a second. Basically, your life is not over until you win.
Perhaps you should stop letting other people direct your path and make decisions that will define you. Equally, your journey begins now, thus you can become the power and succeed. I just thought that was like really, like, so interesting, you know? And then there was a lot of people who were like, oh, it's probably not, uh, they probably don't think about angels and stuff, but I think like there is an element of that with people kind of being guardian angels towards each other in the show and things like that. So I wouldn't be surprised if, if that's where that came from. And then the other thing people brought up is, maybe it's just a coincidence because this is an episode about coincidences. They refer to the movie Magnolia twice, which is a movie about coincidences. So anyway, just a kind of fun, uh, little reference there that, uh, I thought was kind of funny.
One other thing I found really interesting, and I don't know because I haven't watched a show, but it's hard to, you know, I just hear rumblings on Twitter and things like that, but the whole time I'm like, what's up with Nate dude? Like, what is his problem? Like, goodness, like, like this guy, this, his assistant apparently, I guess he is an assistant now, which is amazing being that they, they have staff even though they've gone down a league and this guy is this kid's wanting to go to his like grandparents, you know, uh, birthday party or anniversary, I don't know what it was, but, and then, and Nate's like,
I think it was his mom's birthday.
Oh, it was mom’s birthday even. Well, you know, and Nate's like, you gotta, you gotta be here, you know? Like, you gotta be here, you know, Ted's like, no, no, you can go home. And then afterwards she's just like looking at Beard, like, what's up with this guy? And I've seen that, I've seen that many times in leadership roles where someone gets promoted and then all of a sudden in this like new personality or new part of this personality comes out. And it definitely comes from a, obviously an insecure place, but they really want to like communicate a certain level of authority, but then they become very cold in the process. And I'm like, man, what? I hope you're not gonna be like this the whole time. Like, are you so mean, man? What happened to Sweet Nate?
Yeah, so that's not his assistant, it's the kit man, it's the role that Nate used to play for the team. And so remember like at the end of last season when they promoted him to become a coach, when he came in, there was already a guy in there like doing all the stuff for him that he would normally do. That's who this kid is. And so, yeah, I'm curious if he actually reports to Nate or all the coaches or if he, if it's just because that used to be Nate's position, he kind of is overseeing it. But, but yeah, so I agree that it's, it's like insecurity in leadership, but we saw bits of this in the last season too. So there was, you know, where he did the roast of the players. Like he, he had some really biting things to say to people, people that were
That is true. That's a good point. And maybe I saw it differently because it was coming from the, the sweet Nate, right?
Yeah. Yeah. And then even, uh, in that last episode when, um, this new Kit man is there before he realizes he's been promoted, he yells at the Kitman first, and then when Ted comes in, he's like, you know, what the hell is going on? And then when Rebecca comes in, he calls her a shrew. So we've seen that he has this kind of like anger within him, but it is interesting now seeing him in this position of leadership, especially when he's had someone like Ted there as like a mentor and the way that he's speaking not only to, oh my gosh, and I keep calling him the Kitman, and right now his name is escaping me. Oh, I feel so bad. But also Danny, right? So when they're initially talking about what should we do for Danny, Nate says, well, you know, Danny just needs motivation.
We could just show him as goddamn paycheck. Yeah. And even then, like Ted and Beard kind of look at him and Ted says, well, that's kind of a little aggressive, you know? But then he, he doesn't want him to feel bad. And so he says, well, but you know, I shouldn't bring an umbrella to a, uh, brainstorm. So <laugh>. So he tries to just kind of, you know, he doesn't, and so, yeah, so it's interesting that he doesn't call him out on any of that, but I agree, like a lot of new leaders struggle with that and they come into it and they like do this thing where they go all the way on the other side of it feeling like they have to assert their authority in order to show that they are now, you know, in a leadership position.
Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because that the more they assert their power, the more weak they look. So it's just like this, this spiral that continues. The other part that I found that was so interesting as well is, again, I gotta go back to the writing, the writing is phenomenal because when Ted walks into, uh, Rebecca's office and, and they're having girl talk, and then the next time he wants to have girl talk, you know, so he is just like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have girl talk, so I'm gonna help you out. He literally defines what a lot of men don't understand about Girl talk. Like he breaks down and he's like, oh, okay. So sometimes girl talk is just, girl, listen, okay, I got this. And then later on, you know, then he's just like, oh, sometimes girl talk is, I don't need to solve anything. Like I just, I'm just here, you know? And it's <laugh>, a lot of dudes do not understand that, and they were able to break that down really quickly. So it's just like educating men on like, listen, this is how you act. Actually connect more in these ways here. Here's the blueprint. Just simply follow what Ted is learning himself.
Yeah. Yeah. I love that idea about not having to fix something. Cuz I, I agree. Like, I think that's something that I've definitely seen a lot, lot of men struggle with. I think women probably struggle with it too. But definitely when it comes to interactions between men and women, there's often going back to, we talked last season about mansplaining and, and all of that, right? But it's interesting because, so he's in there with her talking about, oh, okay, so I don't have to fix everything. But then there's the flip side of him with the team and feeling like he needs to be able to fix everything, right? Yeah. And there's like, that's where we're starting to see some of his insecurities start to come out again around Dr. Sharon coming and joining the group. Because in the past, you know, he could have had that conversation with <laugh>, so that, that scene in the shower where Danny's just standing there praying and like, you know, and it's right after the press conference and Ted has said, you know, well, hopefully he's not being too hard on himself.
And then we cut right to Danny just standing there, really being hard on himself. And what was interesting is that like, you know, he initially like tried to go back to his way, his original way. Ted goes back to his way of original, his original way of doing things, which is just to, you know, to remind him, well, you know, football is life and none of that is, is working. And he turns around, he looks at Nate and Beard, and, and he mouths, you know, I, I got nothing <laugh>. And so, you know, I think he's a little bit shaken too, because he doesn't genuinely know what to do in this case, and that's not something that usually happens for him.
I know. And then when, when Danny Rojas comes back out and is like, Danny Rojas again, I think he looks over and even just the visual, right, of Dr. Sharon over him, you know, and then all of the players now starting to see her because they're like, well, if he did did this magic for Danny, then it has to do, and he, he doesn't have that power anymore, right? Like, that's for, for him, he has to be like, okay, well one, what role am I playing? Because clearly I'm not a strategist when it comes to soccer, and clearly I'm not contributing in this way. I contribute in the folksy giving advice. And this person is like a professional that not only is a professional, but then also can speak all of their languages. Like notices what part of, like, France this person's from, or, and he, he's just like, I can't do any of that. So what is my role here? You know, if anything, maybe she should coach the team. That's, that's I think the thoughts that he might be having.
Yeah. So another, um, topic that kind of came to mind for me was around boundaries. Like, I thought that was an interesting part of this episode too, because you've got like Ted, who oftentimes feels very boundary-less. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum, you've got Dr. Sharon coming in and she's got like all kinds of boundaries that she's setting, right? Starting with, don't call me ‘Doc,’ Right? It's doctor. Right. And cuz he keeps calling her dog and she's like, doctor. And, and so then you see him through the rest of the episode kind of struggling cuz he'll be like, Hey doctor. And that's a big one. Cuz I think a lot of people come in and make assumptions about what they, you know, like shortening people's names and things like that. And a lot of times people won't say something. Um, and so I really appreciated that she like, started out with setting that boundary. And it's interesting because you felt a little bit like similar to Ted, which is like, you know, she, she, I think, and tell me if I'm misstating what you said, but either that she just wasn't connecting with him in that same way or didn't necessarily like him as much. Was that kind of what you were…
Oh, I just felt apprehension. Apprehension. I also feel like the writers wrote it that way. Right? Yeah. But I've been on both sides where I've both felt as if like, this therapist is against me, and then also been like, oh, this therapist understands me, so I get how he feels.
Yeah. So even with that apprehension, like it's, it's interesting because I think that most of us struggle, or many of us, no, I shouldn't say most of us, but many of us struggle with creating healthy boundaries and then actually holding those boundaries. And when we encounter someone who is good at it, it does give us this feeling of apprehension. And it also sometimes makes us feel like the person's rude or they're, they don't like us, or, or whatever. And it, it has nothing to do with this. It's that they are holding those boundaries for themselves. And so I thought that was just a really interesting contrast between her and him. And then you've got like, what I think is a really lovely show of healthy boundaries between Keeley and Roy, uh, because we see that like their relationship has continued and they, you know, are in a good place.
And even though she like keeps talking to him about like becoming a pundit and all this stuff, she, once again, you know, they're continuing to communicate, which I thought was really nice. And she calls him to say, Hey, you know, I, I feel really bad that I was trying to force you into something you don't wanna do. And so he accepts her apology and, you know, and, and then she remembers like, oh, it's his yoga mom's night. And so like, and she gives him that space to do that or whatever, but like, they're still like navigating that together, but they're communicating their way through it. And so I thought that was really like beautifully demonstrated.
Did she want to hang out with the yoga moms too?
I don't think so.
I don't think she really has any interest in, in hanging out with them. I just think it's <laugh> that's like a, you know, yeah. That's a whole other thing about, I I think it's really funny that they still don't know who he is. Right. Like, the fact that they don't even know that he's this famous footballer.
But yeah, so I, I just think that that, that was kind of like where they're at is in the middle of Sharon, who's on the one end of really strong boundaries and Ted who's on on the other end of virtually no boundaries, and they're kind of in that middle ground.
And you bring up a point that I didn't even realize, right? So, you know, Ted's way of running the team is very much like family, right? Like, that was kind of the theme of the first season, especially when they're like burning stuff and putting it in the, the bin and, you know, and having all those, you know, really amazing connections. But now, if you describe a company like family, like that's a red flag, right? So it's like, this is interesting now to find like, okay, well there are certain things where Ted really probably will need to start setting certain amount of boundaries, or it can also get really toxic, toxic and really, I don't know, like incestuous just like, just like messy where, yeah, you don't know where the professional and the personal relationship is. So I'm fascinated with how that will play out.
I agree. And the other thing that came up for me for this one also, this episode was around just issues of mental health in general or asking for help. So, you know, going back to what you mentioned about Ted, you know, not being the biggest fan of therapy because of his experience with it. And I loved that conversation between him and Beard in the pub, because we're back to kind of that emotional intelligence again where, you know, beard is like, well, are you jealous? And, and he says, no, you know, I thought it might have been that too. And so you see Ted kind of looking inward to figure out like what emotions are actually coming up for him and trying to really work through them because he doesn't wanna be that person that's gonna hold his team back. And he realizes that for him it is about trust.
And like you said, you know, with the, um, experience that you also had in feeling unseen and unheard in that space. So you've got Ted, who we know suffers from anxiety and has panic attacks, but he does not want to engage in therapy. He's not really sure he sees the value in it yet <laugh>. And then you've got like so many members of his team who are like, ready to jump in and like, and take this on. And so with the understanding that, again, sometimes just, you know, like the whole be a goldfish, like this was interesting for me because when I think about leadership now, and I talk to leaders in the work that I do, a lot of times we are talking about that. Oh, you know, allowing people to just show up and be authentic, be themselves, be the whole person that they are.
And you know, there's two sides to this. Uh, you know, so one, one part of this is that people don't necessarily feel comfortable like sharing that side of them, especially like in the workplace. The part that really sticks out to me, going back to this idea of like being a whole human being is that just because you tell me to like, you know, well, don't worry about it. Forget your mistakes or whatever, it doesn't mean I'm going to, and just like we saw Ted's panic attacks last time, last season, were around like issues with his family, we don't leave parts of ourselves at the door when we come into work. And so if people are in their heads about other things, it's gonna impact their performance. And so in this case, yeah, Danny was on the, on the pitch, he killed the dog. So it was part of his during, you know, his job that this happened, but it was this issue of death and, you know, and the existential crisis he was having around it, that that was really kind of holding him back. And so I love that they're starting to weave in this idea that like, sometimes you have to ask for help and there has to be an understanding that all of our parts of life are connected. And so we're not gonna forget one thing just because we're given kind of permission to forget it. Like <laugh>, it's probably still gonna be in there rattling around with the stories, you know, spinning up and getting in our way. So.
Yeah, that, it reminds me of, of something I'm reading, I'm reading Trudy LeBron's book right now, which I thought is, is really good. And she would talk about how like, you know, there's no such thing as like business and then personal, like personal is business. Like, especially if you're devoting 2000 to 2,500 hours to it. And you know, my former job was also like a play job where we, we would say during orientation, please show up as your full nerdy, authentic self. And now I realize how difficult that was for a lot of people, right? And that they had a lot of workplace trauma from previous jobs that probably said the same thing to them. And also, I don't even know what that actually meant, because I'd be like, yeah, I'd say that, but then I'd be like, obviously you still stay professional. And I'd just be like, well, what does that mean?
You know, like, how jokey do you want me to get? How, how weird do you want me to be at this job? And now I, I kind of cringe whenever I hear authenticity and show up as your auth, it's been used so much that now it's just like a cliche that it's just like, I feel as if some people have used it as a way of being like, well, I'm a toxic person, so this is my authentic self, so this is how I'm gonna show up and I'm allowed to be this way because you told me I could show up this way. Right? So I think it's a much more complex, uh, discussion to have of like, for each organization to have of like, what does that actually mean? What, what parts of me do you really do want to see? And I'm gonna be very apprehensive for a significant amount of time until I see my leaders doing that as well. Yeah. You know, on a consistent basis and not getting punished for being who I am.
Yeah, exactly. And again, I think that goes back to, you know, a lot of what we talked about last season around psychological safety. So creating those spaces where people will feel comfortable in that way. It is so interesting because I think, like this was a lot of, I think I, I feel like I used a lot of that language for a long time too, where, you know, I wanted people to feel good about coming in as they were or whatever, but it does get messy when you start trying to bring that together with the idea of professionalism. And so really trying to, I guess, redefine what that even means in today's world, especially like after the pandemic and, or I guess through the pandemic, and all of that, right? Like, so many people are afraid to turn on cameras and, and, um, talk to each other because of the life happening behind them.
And so part of this is what does that really look like and how do leaders support it? But I, you know, I I really feel like a lot of it is around this idea of empathy as well and like being able to recognize that when people show up and behave in a certain way, there's probably always something so much deeper than what's showing up on the surface. And so maybe that's what it's really about, is learning to, for organizations to learn, to acknowledge that and to understand that and to learn to like work within that. And I don't, I don't know how that happens yet. Like, I feel like that's a lot of the work we're all trying to do is to figure out how we make that happen in the real world, you know?
Yeah. And it's like a case by case basis, because I tell companies all the time, I'm like, you know, staff want to be, feel, seen, heard, appreciated, and valued. Right? But what does that mean? Like, what does that tangibly mean? And that's different for each organization and different for each leader, because some leaders may not be very good at making people feel seen. Right. <laugh>. So the, and, and then you have to ask, what should that person even be in that position? So that's the thing that I think is fascinating, you know, and tying it back to like the whole family thing, right? Ted Lasso, the Ted Lasso family, the AFC Richmond family, it's messy. And we have to be able to constantly re-look at it and be like, okay, are there certain boundaries that are being crossed? And if they are, what do we do about it?
Yeah. And, and what just came up for me, as you were saying that is there's a part of being able to look at people as human beings. So to your point about being seen, like I just wanna be seen as a human being who is not perfect, who has other things besides this job, you know, that define me. And it makes me think about Nate, like coming back to, how he is stepping into this new role of leadership where he's not seeing Will as a human, right. Like, the fact that Will is coming to them to be like, Hey, like Will feels comfortable. Like he's coming to the coaches, he's like, Hey, you know, it's my mom's birthday. Can I take, you know, can I leave early? And Nate is just like, shutting it down because he can't even see, like, it almost feels like that, well, you know, we've always done things a certain way, so we're gonna keep doing them this way. You know, like it almost has that kind of a feeling to it.
It has a very toxic masculine feeling to it. Like, I need to exert my power. I need to communicate that we need to win. You know, there's a lot of ties right now, so we should be actually working even harder. And it's like, where's this coming from, Nate? Like, chill, dude. The other part that I thought was also interesting was the double date. I found the double date to be fascinating because I actually hadn't realized how mediocre this man was. Uh, I was just like, you know, he's alright here. He's okay, he's pretty good. You know, like whatever. Like, he's, he's better than, he's better than most. Right? And, and I have many female friends who arelike, you know, he's, they say that, they'll say that about someone they're dating cause like, well, he's better than the last four boyfriends I've had. So, you know, because it's all about context, right?
So it's hilarious when finally, and the trigger point for me was, was like, oh, you need to end it with this guy is when he was just like, yeah. Um, Roy was like, well, what team do you support? And he's like, I support United and City – whatever team is winning. <laugh> And that is the worst answer any, any football fan, not soccer, we're saying football, any football would say it's just blasphemy. You pick one <laugh> you can't pick. And if you're a fair weather fan, then you're not a fan, then you're just not a fan of soccer. You know, you know, and, and this guy is, is sharing another one of his like quick quirky stories about whatever, some celebrity or something to bump into because he's trying to get Roy's approval. And Roy could not get a drink faster. Like he could, he was getting drinks every four seconds because it was just this painful to sit with this guy.
He kept asking for the drinks, but they weren't coming, which was the funny part. But yeah, his reaction to that particular exchange was the funniest too. And, you know, where he just kind of smiled and, and then asked for another drink. But yeah, that whole, it's, I loved this double date. Like, or actually especially the part after the double date, because
Yes, the part after the double date.
I understand Keeley's position where, you know, Rebecca's like, okay, well what do you guys think? And Keeley's like, well, you know, he seems nice and he's… You know, she goes through all the things – he's financially, uh, –
Yeah. She goes, he's age appropriate and financially appropriate. Like, those words are so –
– middle of the road.
Yeah, Exactly. And then when you hear Roy, like, I, like, I loved it, you know, where he is just like, well, he's fine, but, you know, everybody's fine. And that's, it's not about him. It's about like, why do you think he deserves you? And you deserve to have someone who makes you feel like you're struck by lightning, but the the last part, don't you dare settle for, for fine. Like, this has become such a meme all over. Yep. And I love it. Like, it's just so I have needed to hear that over and over.
And I was just saying to a friend the other day, like, I know this sounds crazy, but you know, I've had a hard time like putting myself, like, we talked about this when you went on that 24 hour date and stuff. Like, I've had a really hard time putting myself back out there to date. And I remember watching this episode, uh, when it originally came out, and I was just like struck. And then when you see Rebecca and she starts going through, you know, her whole thought process and that whole scene is really, really well done too, because
Oh wait, when she breaks up with the guy?
Yeah. So the song that's playing is Aimee Mann's “Wise Up.” And what I love is the, the words over and over are, it's not going to stop until you wise up. And so that's like what's playing in the background, but then what she actually says to him, and this is this one really struck me because I feel like it put into words everything that I've been feeling as I'm like thinking about what it's like to meet somebody again and to trust somebody again, her quote is, dating is so odd, we're all essentially strangers, so how is it possible to feel safe with anyone? And I suppose you can't. And then she talks about Sassy and how Sassy told her that intimacy is all about leaving yourself open to being attacked. It does make you realize how scary it is, allowing yourself to be intimate again, you really do have to be brave. And that's it right there. I need to be brave enough to let someone wonderful love me without fear of being hurt or fear of being safe. And I thought, oh wow, like that, that's really something, right? Like the fear of being hurt. I think we can all relate to, I think most of us don't recognize that there is a fear of, of being safe too, to an extent because Hmm. I think we're not used to feeling that a lot of times, you know? Yeah.
Oh, I was gonna say. Or we're not used to feeling safe with other people.
Like, like, yeah. Oh, I'll go binge watch Netflix or stuff like that and, and curl up with a blanket and, and I'll be fine, you know? By myself. But to do that with somebody else, that level of intimacy, we both want it and are also kind of scared of it. Yeah. Because if you have it, it might also then be taken away from you. Right. So, and I, I think that's the part that, that I find really fascinating, you know, throwing out our favorite person, Angie Cole, uh, one of my favorite people, she would always, uh, or she taught me this whole like, concept around this idea of open hand, right? Not open relationship but like open hand. And the, the concept was, you know, your relationship's, like you have your hand open and like a bird can land on it. And you know, every day you choose whether you want to stay on that hand or not.
Right? And each choice, like each moment, each hour, you're deciding, I wanna still be in this relationship, I wanna still be in this relationship. But what a lot of people fear is both people like try to close on the bird and try to like squeeze it because they're like so scared of that person or that, you know, experience leaving them that they almost crush the love because they're so scared, right? So they either crush the love and then they're like clinging onto the person, or they close their hand, they're like, nobody, no one's allowed to hold my hand. Like, no one's allowed to land on here. And that's, that's fascinating, man. That's fascinating.
Yeah, for sure. My dad used to have a similar kind of example with the hand, but his was about holding sand in your hand and that when your hand is open, you could hold the sand with a lot more ease. And as soon as you close your
And more of it.
Yeah. And more of it. Exactly. As soon as you close your hand, the sand starts to slip through your fingers. And I think that it's a similar analogy, right? That as soon as you start to, I know for me, anytime I've been in a relationship <laugh> and I start to feel smothered or you know, where, where my ability to like do my own thing. Like I don't have the, those boundaries aren't there, and I'm not able to go do the thing I do. I start to feel like I can feel that slipping away because it doesn't work for me. It feels too constricting, right? And so, yeah. So I, I do think that that's just a, a really, uh, beautiful analogy from Angie as well. And this whole scene just really spoke to me in so many ways. And I loved seeing the, her facial expression change through that whole, just as she was kind of talking it through and, and recognizing it for herself and what that was gonna mean, and, and the level of courage that it really does take to, to say, okay, you know what? I'm gonna do this even though I might get hurt, even though I might not be safe initially. Like, I may have to go through some of this to get there, but I'm going to be brave enough to do that. And I just, yeah. I really, really loved that.
And they cut to that, they cut to that woman sitting alone. Yeah. And it was just like, she's like, I wanna be alone. Like, oh, you know, I, I don't need to be here. And I thought this was other thing that I just realized with the guy, the guy knew, the guy knew immediately was just like, are you breaking up with me? Yeah. <laugh>. And it makes me feel as if, oh, this guy's had this experience a lot. Well, why is this guy having this experience? You know? He is like, well, you know, respected, he has affluence, all this stuff like that. And it's also, I wonder now for him, he probably has a certain routine that he goes through when he dates, right? And tells the same stories over and over again to impress and even said that language to her when he was like, well, did I pass the test?
And you can tell maybe he himself is not being vulnerable enough to even show his real self to others. So he probably needs to, you know, let go as well. Like have, you know, be in a place of possibly being hurt or possibly not having the witty thing to say, you know, and like not have it all scripted out. And maybe that's the reason why he's, you know, struggling. I will say in going back to earlier, you know, you know, I, I was in a relationship not too long ago, you know, maybe it was like a year ago or a year and a half ago or something like that now, where I thought it was gonna be, it was gonna happen. It was like, oh my God, this is gonna be it. And then it wasn't. But one thing that I came out of and trust me, I was like, hurt.
And we went to therapy and we did all these things, but I was hurt at the end. But the one thing that I felt really happy about was the idea of leaving the relationship. I didn't feel the way I felt after other long-term relationships that ended. And other long-term relationships that ended in the past, I was like, never gonna love again. Love is the worst. It's horrible, you know? And then instead this time I was just like, oh no, there's like a beautiful sadness to it. Like, I'm sad that it ended, I'm sad it didn't work out. But there's also a beauty to that, you know, there's a complexity to that. And also, you know, I, I'm quoting the South Park, I think I've quoted this before. It's just like, for, in order for me to feel a certain level of happy and joy and fulfillment, I also have to feel this level of like sadness as well. I have to cover the spectrum of feelings. And knowing that I was just like, no, I'm ready to love again. Like, I'm down to love again. I was like, okay, let's go!
Is that South Park quoting Brene Brown <laugh>?
I mean, or it could be Brene Brown quoting South Park, right? Like, does it really matter? Like, like you never know, right? Like it's all, it all folds into it. I think South Park came out with it first, so like, but again, right? So it's messy <laugh> and we need to embrace the messy.
Yeah, it's definitely messy. And, but I love what you just said and I think that, you know, it shows how much work you did to getting through past relationships and stuff to be able to get to that point when you ended, when that relationship ended to be in that, you know, much healthier head space around it, because that's not easy. It doesn't come easy to just, you know, get, like, I think it takes a lot of work is basically what I'm trying to say.
So one question I have for you and a detail, because now I'm focused on details because you've taught me. Beard is reading a book from Matthew Saed, did you see that? What is the symbolism of that? As I did not know. I was just like…
Yeah. And you know what? I didn't have a chance to look it up this time. Normally I, I, I look it up. And I didn't have a chance this time, it was on my list, and I just didn't get to it. So, okay, I will let you know next time what the significance of that one is. But there were definitely a bunch of cute little pop culture references and little things. So at the beginning in Rebecca's office, when they are there for cocktails and Rebecca offers Ted a cocktail, he says, I'll, I'd say that, he says, well, it's the same thing I'd say if Diane Sawyer ever asked me out on a date. Yes, please. And so when the episode came out, Diane Sawyer actually tweeted at Ted Lasso and said, Dear @Ted Lasso, I'm in. Your move. <laugh> So I thought that, yeah, I thought that was really cute.
Also quoted, I noticed they also quoted, “what are you talking about, Willis?” from Different Strokes. So I was like, oh my gosh, it's a Different Strokes Willis reference? I say that all the time, but no one knows what I'm talking about. Whatcha you talking about?
Yeah. And then you've got a lot of Star Wars references starting in, so, oh yeah. We already know that this three season arc is loosely based on the Star Wars trilogy, and this season is now our Empire StrikesBack season. And so some great foreshadowing you have Higgins already talking, like specifically saying he's going back to, uh, watch EmpireStrikes Back with his kids, right? Keeley, who quotes Ted to Rebecca at the beginning, uh, around the whole like, uh, social media issue and says, uh, Ted says, don't you fret, Boba Fett. And so, so, so we've already seen like, um, some of those things coming in. And then Ted, as, as Higgins is leaving the office, Ted says, may the force be with you and Higgins replies, and also with you. <laugh> And it's like a very like, like, like I think the Catholic church they do…
I was like, that's that's a Christian reference. I was like, oh, they're combining Star Wars and Christianity. It was so interesting.
Yeah. Like I think Catholics, um, have that I think in, uh, in their service.
No, Christians in general go…
Okay, so Magnolia. So we already talked about that. There were a couple of references to Magnolia and, and the interesting thing again there is just, that's such a, have you seen the movie with Tom Cruise?
A long time ago.
Yeah. So it was, I saw it a long time ago too, and now I'm curious to see it again though. But it's all about, again, just like these weird coincidences. And so that's a lot of what
Oh, I have seen that with the car accidents and stuff in his face. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fake. Yeah. Okay. I remember it. Barely remember it. Barely remember.
And then I'm trying to think if there was anything else that came up. So in the pub, when Ted and Beard are meeting to kind of talk about the therapy, so Ted talks about, he says, uh, Hey coach, can I get real for a second? Forget my meal for a second. And then beard replies, put down your beer and tell a buddy how you feel for a second. And that's actually a throwback to Hamilton.
And it comes from, in Hamilton, it's, uh, the song “Right Hand Man.” And in that it says, can I be real for a second? For just a millisecond. Let down my guard and tell people, tell the people how I feel for a second. And so they, they just switched it up a little, which I thought was really cute. And then, I don't know if you noticed, I don't know if we've talked about this before, but whenever they toast, they always like *clink* their glasses and then hit the table before they drink.
Yep. Put it on the ground. Yep.
Yep. Have we talked about that before?
No. Is there a symbolism to that?
So there's two kind of main ones. There's like a lot of historical things around that. But, um, one is, uh, with the military so that you tap it as a tribute to fallen comrades, or which I could see them kind of doing that, or just for people who aren't able to be there with you anymore to share a toast. So people who are no longer there with you. And then there are other kind of chains that talk about how it's a, like if you do it at a bar, it's kind of a toast to like the bartender or the establishment. And so, yeah. But I think they do it in a lot of different places, so
Yeah. Oh, I've heard just cheers in general. The origins of cheers was, you know, if two people were about, were potentially gonna go to battle, and they were like, oh, cool, I don't trust one another, but you know, we're gonna have a drink together. You have to clink the glasses hard enough that the liquid from their glass goes into your glass.
So that you know that, yeah, that it's safe to drink. You can't do that now with glasses. But they used to.
Vikings used to do that when, you know, when they were hanging out...
So they weren't poisoned.
They wouldn't, yeah, they wouldn't be poisoned. Right. So, so I was like, oh, that is fascinating. I will say one other thing, you know, because I know we gotta wrap up, but one other thing that I found interesting, but I also didn't know how to feel about it, was Roy <laugh> Roy running to the couch of the yoga ladies and then sitting and then seeing Jamie on this like, reality show. And he's like, let's do this. And I'm like, what is he doing? Like, what is the, what is the joy? Has he, has he been watch, has Jamie been in this show the whole time? Is this why he hangs out with the yoga ladies? Like this is, all these questions started coming up for me. And then they cut it and I'm like, what? I'm like, I need to know, even though it was like so absurd of an, an ending, I was just like, what is, this doesn't make sense. Like, has he just been watching reality shows with them so we could keep tabs on Jamie? Like, I'm just also confused.
It is such a funny scene. I think that that's just part of what he and the yoga moms do besides the actual yoga, which if they actually do it, I think it's interesting. So now we know that, that Jamie is still around, but he's not playing football right now. He has, like, gone into this world of reality shows. They're kind of referring to probably like something like Love Island or something.
Yes, yes. All those horrible shows, which I watch, by the way, <laugh>, I won't admit it. You really always, but I love them. Too Hot toHandle, watched it, <laugh> Blind, whatever, Love is Blind. Watched it both seasons. Horrible, horrible to watch. And also fascinating from a sociological perspective,
<laugh> But my guess is they have been watching it this whole time and he's excited about watching it, but I'm wondering if he's excited about watching it with the hopes that Jamie's gonna get kicked off. Like he's just waiting for others to, you know, see what he sees. And then I think he's really disappointed that like these yoga moms are like, they love him and, and he's just like, <laugh>, you know,
He's my favorite. You're like, oh gosh, do you know who this is?
So, yeah, I, yeah, that, that's actually, um, a pretty funny one. So yeah, I'm, I'm excited to see…
Yeah. So I'm, I'm excited about a plot line that I really should not be that excited about, but I'm like, Ooh, I wanna know more –
Lust conquers all.
Because it, it taps into my whole Love Island/Too Hot to Handle superficiality, you know,
Because literally if you watch any of those shows, all they do is they party and drink. Yeah. They don't even show them eating. I find this so fascinating. No eating, just party drinking and then getting ready to party. That is the whole show over and over again. And then sometimes they film them sleeping but not really sleeping, if you know what I'm saying. So like, you know what I'm saying? Like, so it's just like, it's such a horrible show and I'm like fully into it.
That is so funny. So I guess, are you gonna take any lessons into the next week? Or are you gonna kind of be open to just the general question? What are your thoughts?
I think the, the idea of boundaries, I think something that I really don't do as well, especially for myself, is communicating boundaries. Because I'm like a gregarious, fun guy. And I even noticed like a lot of times, and I was talking, uh, about this with, uh, my friend Sarah and, and Angie of all people, um, where we were just discussing how, I'll just speak for myself. It's really easy for me to, to be somewhat vulnerable, right? Like, like the superficial vulnerable, because my superficial vulnerable is much more vulnerable than many, I guess men that identify as like cis-gendered, like straight men, right? So people, and that's maybe why I have more female friends than male friends. Like, I don't know, it was, maybe it was taught to me by my sisters or whatever, or, or beaten down into me, who knows <laugh>. So because I have like a certain level of vulnerability and a certain level of like curiosity where I really do want to understand a person. So I really want them to feel seen and heard and appreciated and, and safe. I realized that then people think we're closer than we actually are.
And that is fascinating to me because I'm like, oh no, we're just, I'm just me. Like, like it's, we're not having a, like a moment. You think we're having a moment because you've rarely had this moment with other straight men because it's just not normal. But yeah. So I, I have to, I'll figure out for myself how then when that happens, what boundaries do I communicate or state so that I'm not misinterpreting it to the other person, that we're having a moment when we, when in my opinion, are not.
So do you mean like if you're talking to a woman or if you're talking to men or just…?
Yeah, when I'm talking, especially when I'm talking to women, women where we, where where there might also be some sort of physical or mental attraction, you know, then they feel closer. Like we, we are, we are like, have a deep connection. We just had a deep moment and I'm like, ooh, I dunno. Yeah. So I have to be like conscious of that.
Okay. Yeah, that's a good one. And I can see how that happens easily. So for me, I think I'm gonna stick with kind of leaning into the question each week again. But one thing that I do want to kind of carry through this season for myself is this idea of don't you dare settle for fine and being brave in putting myself out there because it's definitely something that I am very intentionally working on now. And so I want to see how this plays out over the time, like over the series of us working through these episodes, but then I'll still kind of keep the overall “What would Ted lasso do?” question in mind, right, week to week. So Yeah,
I love that. Don't you dare settle for fine.
Because I love also what Roy, so what did he say again? It's about why do you think he deserves you? Ooh. I mean, he swear, swore as well. Yeah. I'm not gonna use a swear, but like, I love asking that question. Why do you think this dude, this dude, this average dude, this mediocre dude. Ugh, don't you dare settle for fifineve. Ugh. So good.
Yeah, I love it. Love it. All right, well that wraps up season two, episode one. Uh, thank you all so much for listening and Jeff, I appreciate you as always and –
I appreciate you too. I'm excited…
I was just gonna say, I'm excited to jump into the rest of the season.
I'm excited I finally get to see it. I've never seen, ah. Oh, last thing I'll say, and this is because I, we need to document this just for documenting sake. When we did run the Ted Lasso, uh, meetup at this World Domination Summit thing, and we had the 40 people there when they wanted to bring up season two <laugh> plot lines, I had to leave the circle and cover my ears. And then when I came back in, everyone would be laughing and joking and I'd be like, totally, guys. Totally. I completely agree with you. So I'm so glad that if we ever do this in the future, because we did apply to do this at South by Southwest. We're gonna try to run a beat up at South by Southwest. I will not have to do that ever again. Yippee!
<laugh>. Oh, good things to look forward to. All right. Thank you so much. See you soon.
All right. Take care. See you everyone.
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